Ritu Bhargava

Rahul Abhyankar [00:00]

Ritu, it's such a privilege to have you on Product Leaders Journey. Thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation.

Ritu Bhargava [00:07]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

Rahul Abhyankar [00:10]

You have an MBA in finance and you have an undergrad in psychology and economics. And then your first job was as a software developer for SAP. So that's not adding up for me.

Ritu Bhargava [00:22]

It doesn't add up for me either, Rahul. Yeah, I this was in 2000 or so. And at that time, ERP was just getting started. Oracle, for example, was really expanding its footprint in financials. And how do we really think about The software working together with the needs of the user, of the customer. so they were hyper-focused on getting people who understood finance as a domain. That's how I landed the job. And before that, of course, SAP was, I didn't work at SAP, but it was a training ground for, again, understanding end-to-end business processes, how they connect together, how do you ultimately impact total cost of ownership with connected business processes and systems. So it kind of added up luckily for me, but it was not the path that I chose.

Rahul Abhyankar [01:09]

What would you have rather been?

Ritu Bhargava [01:16]

Three options. And I've flip-flopped on them ever since. The first was I wanted to be an interior designer. My dad is an architect and I saw him work so hard and get so little out of it except dealing with issues. So I was like, okay, I can maybe do the fun part of it. The second would have been a psychologist potentially. And third was a financial consultant or a business strategy kind of going into using my finance and it background of, and none of them panned out. Not that I pursued any one of them.

Rahul Abhyankar [01:49]

But you what I think is that elements of all three of those are probably, you know, you are leveraging those subconsciously. I mean, when you talk about interior design, there is an aesthetic appeal. There is an element of understanding how things, how people experience things. And maybe that's an aspect of your role leading CX. And then obviously finance plays a huge part in any leadership role. And then the element of psychology is just the aspect of just people, leadership. So, know, subconsciously those are all three there behind the scenes.

Ritu Bhargava [02:33]

They really are. actually the whole aspect of thinking about economies of scale and really thinking about how to make businesses profitable and really thinking about, elements of bringing empathy into your experience. Both of them, you're beautifully tied in. And I actually do customer experience products for a living and I've done it for a while. And I deeply, deeply care about even one pixel here or there, but I also care about The ultimate experience that the user would experience the delights, the moments of delights that make, I think, software from good, great to exceptional.

Rahul Abhyankar [03:08]

How has that understanding of what it means to delight evolved for you?

Ritu Bhargava [03:19]

When I started working in some of these areas, it was more about, are we delivering on our promises? And are we thinking about, yes, this is, this is what you said, you know, as a product leader, you said that you have, you know, is on your roadmap this is what the customer is expecting based on their feedback. And you deliver that. And I think that's table stakes, And especially, and you know, I already have to bring in the AI word already into our conversation is, it's not new when we have been talking about the impact of how do you anticipate needs and sometimes not even anticipate needs and ask, but anticipate needs and execute. for example, a simple thing like my car needs to be serviced. What if the company already told you, we know that your car needs to be serviced. If you just leave it on the curbside, we will come and service it for you and we will send you an invoice and you do not have to lift a finger. and this is just one small use case, but getting ahead of the need that customers do not even know and users do not even know that they will want is something that is deeply, deeply, I think, tied to more delight increasingly.

Rahul Abhyankar [04:20]

There is an element of surprise that you did not anticipate but someone else took the time and effort to think through that scenario for you. And that's I think interesting aspect of that delight. Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [04:43]

And give you time to do the things that you find enjoyable. Like who likes to get their car serviced and who likes to wait in line to get a part changed or when your washing machine is malfunctioning, do you really want to like deal with having to call or chat with a service person? You don't.

Rahul Abhyankar [04:51]

Leading engineering organizations at Oracle, very large company, over 100,000 employees. And from there you went to How many employees was Salesforce at the time?

Ritu Bhargava [05:18]

This was 2011 and Salesforce might have been maybe 7,000

Rahul Abhyankar [05:23]

So how was shift from Oracle 100,000 employees, 7,000 employees, just the scale difference, velocity difference, did you feel that?

Ritu Bhargava [05:35]

Absolutely. It was quite stark. It was quite stark. had hundreds of people at Oracle and when I joined Salesforce, I had about five people. And I thought to myself, know, we measure success by such different yardsticks, success or our scope or responsibility. And for me, what was really interesting is the agility and the speed at which the work happened.

Rahul Abhyankar [05:39]

Can you talk about how stakeholder management was different at Oracle, 100,000 employees? Obviously, you're not interacting with 100,000 employees, but significantly large. And then can you compare and contrast stakeholder management at such a large company versus Salesforce, which was relatively smaller at the time?

Ritu Bhargava [06:19]

It's also a very different way of how you bring out your products and how you really think through and what kind of questions need to be ready before you engage with stakeholders. What I found at Salesforce were the stakeholders were involved in the creation and the ideation quite earlier in the life cycle of the product. So it was a way more hands-on role. And at Oracle, it was a little bit more at some point because the decisions had so much impact across products. So the cross alignment was more required Before you could move ahead in your swim lane. And so that made it a little slower and less empowering for the junior teams to be able to really make those decisions because the impact across was quite massive. And that's really brutal for the customers.

Rahul Abhyankar [07:18]

That's the common refrain we hear that we end up shipping our org charts to our customers.

Ritu Bhargava [07:23]

Conway's law. Conway's law, yeah.

Rahul Abhyankar [07:26]

There any particular brought home an important point about managing up, managing stakeholders?

Ritu Bhargava [07:34]

I've learned the most when I failed. And it's not like in that moment, it's not a failure. You don't think of it as like, OK, now I'm just like, nothing has happened. That's not how I define failure. In that moment, you don't even know that this is something that has not worked well. You just know that there things that are happening that are not going according to a plan. Later on in hindsight, 10, 15 years later, I'm like, you know, that's something I didn't do well. And a case in point is, you know, at, at Oracle, we had a big project, big projects running and you know, there's so many stakeholders that I talked about it. And I realized that instead of thinking about, okay, this is just a status report and I'm just thinking about issues. Can I put myself in the shoes of the bearer of that status report? As to what information are they looking for? What would help them? And it's a different mindset to think about, I'm just giving you the data that I have versus the data that will be meaningful enough to make a decision left or right. And so I did not realize that early on as to, and you get, as I said, you get caught in that hamster wheel of, okay, there's a status report required, produce it, send it. And the status is accurate. It's fine. I'm using just an example. So it's not about inaccuracy, but is that meaningful enough to do the job to move the decision or the execution one step further?

Rahul Abhyankar [08:55]

That's really good advice in terms of just flipping the lens and looking at it from the standpoint of who's going to receive that status report.

Ritu Bhargava [09:19]

So that was one thing, but what I could have done even more is could I have had that conversation to go and say, Mr. Boss or Miss Boss, these are the issues, these are real issues. And I know that this is not good news. What would help rather than thinking that the bosses are just a title. They're also humans. Your bosses are trying to do their job. no one gets up in the morning saying, just need to tell you didn't do, you didn't give me this or that. Right. Ultimately, they're trying to make a decision or they're trying to finish a project, show progress, you know, deliver according to what they promised. I think so that was the thing that carried forward and I used that in a future job that a big project was starting. And I was like, let me have that conversation upfront. And so I went to the stakeholders and I said, what do you need from me? What would help you? And I didn't have that conversation in the first time I did it. And it was, you'd be surprised as to the things you think that it was a deeply technical project. And I thought the person would say, Give me the architecture diagram, the North Star. Give me the milestones. Give me all the dependencies. Give me the product roadmap. And this person was very senior. They didn't say that because they assumed all of those things are part of the project. They will happen. We were going to have reviews, very frequent reviews. What he told me was our teams do not work well together.

Rahul Abhyankar [10:45]

You Alright.

Ritu Bhargava [10:57]

Help me in the teams working together. Because it could end up being constant finger pointing is I have a dependency, you're not delivering that dependency or I have this requirement in six months and you will only deliver it in six months, how will I consume that requirement? in this ever increasing complex landscapes of how companies work, You can endlessly have reorgs. Reorgs do not solve for really the problem at hand because then people will find other reasons to not work together. And we're looking for a common enemy. Usually the common enemy is not your org.

Rahul Abhyankar [11:21]

That is so true. Have there been times when you declined to take on an assignment or a project? And how do you go about saying no to what your boss wants to do?

Ritu Bhargava [11:42]

Yes. Yes. It's one of the most important things you can learn. Saying no and having hard conversations. For hard conversations, there's actually two books. One is Crucial Conversations. The second is Radical Candor.

Rahul Abhyankar [11:58]

Radical candor, Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [12:02]

? But I'm not saying, you know, read a book and implement it, right? The whole point is A, to first find yourself in a position to have earned being able to say no.

Rahul Abhyankar [12:06]

That's important.

Ritu Bhargava [12:17]

Project comes to me, Hey, Ritu this is an integration. We need to fix this. It needs to come together. it's an acquisition. I said, you know, I just did a project like this and I executed it is it happened. I need something now different to go maybe organically create from scratch. And I need a project that I can build rather than fix. But it only happened after I fixed the first one. the no has to be centered into why are you saying no. But it's very hard because you want to please your bosses and you don't want to appear that you're not executing or you're not being a team player and you're not. And, usually here's the thing for whatever I said no to my then boss, I covered in so many yeses that he didn't want from me and over delivering on the other aspects that sometimes were my,

Rahul Abhyankar [12:59]

Interesting.

Ritu Bhargava [13:16]

My expertise areas and sometimes were things that he needed.

Rahul Abhyankar [13:20]

How did you have the conversation with your managers that you are ready to take on more?

Ritu Bhargava [13:26]

I've had it many times actually and sometimes I have regretted it but a lot of the times I have not.

Rahul Abhyankar [13:33]

Interesting.

Ritu Bhargava [13:38]

The first time I asked for it, it ended up being mutual. That they wanted me to take it on. I wanted to take it on and they were like, it's great that you're taking the initiative to ask. Right. And that showed, you know, me putting my foot forward. But then what happened is, and this is what I think a lot of us are scared for and rightly so, is you ask for something and then it becomes your responsibility to make it happen. Versus when it is given to you, you find a lot more support from the bosses to provide you that air cover that because they gave it to you and they took that risk, not you. It's a subtle nuance as to, and I've noticed when I have been given projects, I find a little bit more conviction and support from the giver of that project versus when I raise my hand and sometimes

Rahul Abhyankar [14:17]

Yes. Hmm. Hmm.

Ritu Bhargava [14:35]

They may not have thought of giving it to you, or they may have had someone else in mind, but because you made a strong case, it happened. And that's fine. You need to raise your hand. If you want it enough, you need to raise your hand.

Rahul Abhyankar [14:37]

And then of course, there are all the things that go into having the credibility and all of that, which is important. But then to put yourself out there and take that first step, that's where a lot of us try to pull ourselves back.

Ritu Bhargava [14:52]

Because Yeah. Yeah. I tell myself, what is the worst that can happen? And actually I still do it and I'm going on a stage presentation and we all know, or most of us know that it's scary to be on stage. And I don't, you know, and I talk to myself even now. It's like, what are you scared about? Number one and number two, which has worked for me is Ritu, you have to do this presentation. You're here, you have to do it. So now it's up to you. And you, you know, that time of not, of not having to do this is gone.

Rahul Abhyankar [15:36]

There's no going back now. Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [15:44]

It's up to you. And the same is of asking. What happens if you don't ask? You end up working, let's say, for someone you do not respect. You get to feel miserable because you didn't get that project. Someone else is leading it who you don't align with because they don't operate like you or they think differently, whatever. At that point, would just ask you to think of how would I feel if I didn't get this job? What is the, what is the downside of it? And sometimes I've realized that for me to ask for it and not get it is worse than not asking for it and someone I don't like taking it.

Rahul Abhyankar [16:13]

Earlier you mentioned that you regretted it or something didn't go well with respect to saying no for an assignment. Without going into the specifics, is that something that you can dig a little deeper into?

Ritu Bhargava [16:38]

So I asked for this job. I was one of the people you know I know my peers would end up reporting to me. But it was also a big job, was just, there was a lot going on. And suddenly the reason I regretted it a few months after that job is because I was then at the receiving end of A, my peers complaining about me for whatever reason, B, my bosses being putting more pressure on me to deliver because, you asked for this job. You wanted it. You know, which means that if you are working 20 hour days, you ask for this. You knew exactly what you were asking for, except I didn't know what I was asking for. But then here's what happened. Six months later, the people who were complaining saw what I was capable of. I rethought through what am I really focusing on here? And you cannot, you cannot please everyone for everything. And you cannot have all those wins, but you need to be focused on of all the problems that are there. What are the top three things I need to solve for? The first one is my peers who now end up reporting to me need to know that they can trust me and I can lead them. And I need to A, provide them that visibility clarity that I can lead them. And that has happened to me many times in my career where peers ended up reporting to me and has happened over and over again. And it's hard for everyone. So you have to, again, put yourself in the shoes of People who are going through that ahead of what you are going through because ultimately you got the job that they didn't. Right? So, and then six months later, the same people were actually deeply complimentary and said we made a mistake. And so that was great. But the pressure of what was required of that job never went away.

Rahul Abhyankar [18:24]

So this aspect about making your peers successful, and not only when you get elevated to a role where they start reporting to you, but making your peers successful no matter where they are in the organization, how did that become so important to you that you could rely on that experience when you were put in a role where peers were reporting to you?

Ritu Bhargava [18:51]

And this is something we don't, we don't pay attention to. We, we inherit a team and we want to make our team successful because that would make us look good. Right. And I'm being very, very honest here because that is usually the first thing is like, my team looks, my team is executing. My team is delivering. It will make me look like a good leader. What we do not do enough of, we'll all obviously do that for our bosses. Because hey, my performance is evaluated by them, my next career is evaluated by them. Our peers, we kind of ignore. I need this from you, give it to me. So there has to be an end game, which is not about just pure you, but the end game about them. and be a little selfless of being that team player to enable their success? A simple thing. you know, this is an example where we were on a hard escalation. there were two, three of us who were leaders of that escalation. And every day we were supposed to send an email to the bosses about the progress that we have made on resolving the issue. And every day we all would be like, I'll send that email. No, I'll send that email and you could sense the stress in the room when that email time came because we all have been through that where visibility is everything.

Rahul Abhyankar [20:21]

And this was a very high visibility situation.

Ritu Bhargava [20:23]

A very highly visible project escalation. And we would prepare for that update all day long because you have to collect status, you have to collect the latest and so on and so forth. And I did all that work. I put, I put so much effort in getting the best status update done, ready to go. And then at the, know, when it was ready, I just told the other person, Hey, why don't you send it today? You got it. Your turn. And it was mind blowing. But in that moment, somehow I was like, you know what? It's fine.

Rahul Abhyankar [20:57]

At that point you just said, let it go.

Ritu Bhargava [20:58]

And it turns the dynamic. Yeah, let it go. Let it go. And till from that day onwards, the whole dynamic of the relationship, it was not a bad relationship, but it went to an excellent superior relationship, which just has till date and beyond transcended. I'm still in contact with those people and just, it's just amazing.

Rahul Abhyankar [21:23]

And then the whole competitive angle to that relationship went away.

Ritu Bhargava [21:27]

It will still remain. know, you'll always be... I'm honestly, I am competitive, right? And I'm the most competitive with myself because that's who I just am.

Rahul Abhyankar [21:33]

But it's the one-upmanship that ends up happening that you don't need to deal with that. Yeah. Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [21:41]

Because they understood that, she could be, when we talk about being a team player, it's not just in words. For the things that matter, did you become a team player when that need was? In the times when you could have taken the limelight, in the times when you could have claimed the victory.

Rahul Abhyankar [22:02]

Because you worked so hard for it. That's so beautiful, just letting that go.

Ritu Bhargava [22:04]

Again, it's about the end game, the long game. And we get so fixated by these little, wins.

Rahul Abhyankar [22:15]

Beautiful.

Ritu Bhargava [22:16]

It's a hard one, but it's very hard. In that moment, it's very hard to let go. It's very, very, and I'm really thankful to myself that in that moment I recognized it. And I don't know if I do a good job even now of being able to let go like that. But yeah.

Rahul Abhyankar [22:32]

So as you rise up in the organization, the amount of, I guess, one-on-one time that you get with your senior leaders, that starts to shrink. Right? So how do you make the most of that shrinking time that you get with your senior leaders, executive leaders?

Ritu Bhargava [22:42]

It's so true. I also talk about, and I think earlier boss told me this is the more higher you go, the amount of money you earn per hour also decreases. Both are true because you end up working so much more. It's yeah. And if you then add stress, right. And so and then you're looking for all of that help from your boss and you don't you will not get it. And so how, first of all, it starts with who do you have on your leadership team and how much guidance will they need from you? I'm a believer of really hiring people who are, of course, empowering them, but also people who can be self-sufficient. If they require a lot of guidance from me at various levels Of course, you need to give it and you should be able to dig in. But if you cannot make yourself redundant, then you cannot grow for one.

Rahul Abhyankar [23:49]

How did this come to you?

Ritu Bhargava [23:50]

You're not. It did not.

Rahul Abhyankar [23:54]

Like how have you made yourself redundant in the past?

Ritu Bhargava [23:58]

The primary job that you're hired for, have to do it really well. You don't just get to give it, give that task to someone without saying, I won't do it. And you do it. So you still need to serve the time to get there first. And so the initial years of getting into the details and putting in the work has to happen. You need to understand your product. need to understand your area. You can't just think that, I'll suddenly become a manager and someone else will do my job. I'm not a believer in this. Some people directly become managers, but in pure product and engineering, I think it's deeply valuable for you to become an engineer, a product manager, first line manager, first line engineer, do put in that time. and do the busy work, do the hard work of repetitiveness and fixing your problems And then hiring people sometimes who are even smarter than yourself. It's very hard though, because that would mean that they will sometimes educate you. And I can tell you right now in my current job, I do have people who are very, very smart, smarter than myself, because that's what they do, that's what they are. And I believe in complementary skills in our team. If everyone looks like me, everyone behaves like me, things like me, I talk about cognitive diversity. And if you don't have cognitive diversity, then you're hiring and thinking more like the other person. And once you do that, that's where you talk about 1+1 is 3. That's how you do that. And so the first is you invest, I invest deeply something that I call this org IQ.

Rahul Abhyankar [25:34]

Org iq interesting okay can you define how what does that mean

Ritu Bhargava [25:35]

Or IQ. it's not new, but you you talked about Conway's law, right? And you talked about, which is as simple as, I'll butcher it here, is your products start looking like you ship your org chart, right? And your products start looking like your orgs. And as soon as you start shipping your org charts, you know, there's a problem. So, because that's not how your customers are going to use your product. They don't use your org chart.

Rahul Abhyankar [25:43]

They don't care. Yeah, they don't care.

Ritu Bhargava [26:07]

They don't care. And so how does then that translate to thinking of an organization, and I talked about this earlier, too, you won't have the perfect organization all reporting to you. And it's OK to be able to influence across. And in fact, you should be able to do that more. But you need to think of the leaders and the organization and have an IQ around how ultimately goal is, what is the job to be done? What is the? What is the KPI that you're driving toward? And then is that organizational setup for that success and having IQ around it? So Org IQ has to building around understanding A, strengths of the people, B, the job that you need to get done.

Rahul Abhyankar [26:40]

And understanding. Yeah. But do you then organization go through an assessment, where they fall on the different axes so that other people can take into account and, how does this person think? How does this person work? And, you know, are they more action oriented versus they like to, you know, plan and... dot the i's and cross the t's. So how do you, what do you use to build that org iq?

Ritu Bhargava [27:17]

So some of it has to be data-based, of course. You can't just listen to your gut and say, this is what it is. And so you have to look at the data. And there are many tools for that. Unfortunately, unless you're building a team from scratch and the surrounding teams from scratch, you can't just put in, OK, this is the ideal team set up, and these are the exact profiles I want, and this is exactly how my team is going to be. A lot of the times you inherit people or you have to hire on a very short notice, you have budget constraints or you have location constraints, or you may not find the right profile of the skills you're looking to complement on the existing team. You know, because there's so many things, know, that expertise, the aptitude, the attitude of the person, all of that coming in. For me, I think org IQ also equals emotional IQ, EQ, EIQ. And then powered by the data that, know, what is a high level, just the job to be done. And I personally have a very deep, gut instincts around, around some of people. think people is my thing. the way I do it as I invest deeply in relationships. And sometimes people are like, why is she sharing so much and why is she wanting to tell so much about her? I'm not asking, I'm just telling you who I am and how I behave and how I operate and I'll share and I'll invest in a relationship that is deeply personal. It's an investment in the person and the human what drives that person's behavior, what that person cares about, And I think if you do that at your team level and knowing the person behind that job, again, no best friends, but hey, you have some considerations and you have family considerations and you have maybe some needs in your house that need to be taken care of and you may be the primary and the only person, caretaker, caregiver, whatever, right? There could be thousand you do not know people have everyone has a cross to bear. Everyone. Everyone and I have had changed relationships by knowing that person and you won't know their cross 100 % and they'll not share with you. So I think it's a combination of data, what you need, the job to be done and for me also deeply connecting with people. At a more personal level and then bringing that into the. Into the setup for a team that works together.

Rahul Abhyankar [29:40]

That's wonderful. Have you spent a sleepless night for a 10 minute conversation with one of your executive leaders?

Ritu Bhargava [29:49]

Yes. Yes, many, many, many times. Because you know why? And I've thought about it's like, you whenever I start having sleeplessness or stress about something like I start immediately going to why am I stressed? Why am I stressed about this conversation? And it would be like, you're stressed about this conversation because you're asking for more headcount. Let's say. And you know that the person won't give you.

Rahul Abhyankar [29:54]

And what? Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [30:17]

But why are you stressed about that? Because we don't have budget. But why are you stressed about that? because the person doesn't believe that you need more heads. But why is that? And I'll keep asking the why, the why, the why, the why, the why. And I will then get back to a very basic thing that, maybe because the person thinks that you didn't deliver on the last project. And that's why. Or this person knows that this is not an investment area. And if you break it down to the lowest common, why, it helps you in tackling the underlying cause of some of your stress. And if you can do that, it's very hard again to get to that little minutia of whatever is triggering you. And you'll know it's usually a small thing, not like really the conversation.

Rahul Abhyankar [30:58]

That seems like a good way to prepare for a conversation is to understand how you are viscerally feeling inside and then question that iteratively. Nice.

Ritu Bhargava [31:13]

Because you can, you can endlessly stress. Again, I'll keep saying there's only one way out. It's through. The conversation is going to happen. So now the conversation is going to happen. You can keep on stressing about it. And I'm a big believer of doing something that is in your control. And the other thing I will say is I do not, try not to ask for permission, but forgiveness. And so I can make a mistake in that conversation and whatnot or whatever, but I want to come from a place of strength and own as much as I can control versus stress about things I cannot control.

Rahul Abhyankar [31:54]

You talked earlier about having people way smarter than you in your organization. What's something unexpected that you've learned from someone deep down in the org chart?

Ritu Bhargava [32:06]

Ooh, that's a good one. There was this recent time that someone quite junior came to me and said, didn't even come to me, asked for a one-on-one coffee. Ritu, I'm in town. I want coffee. And it reminded me, it was not a new learning, but it reminded me of something I'd learned very early on. And actually what you talked about recently is, Ritu, I want a different job. And she was nothing close to, like she was deep Engineer somewhere doing something deeply technical. She's like, Ritu, this is not sparking my joy. It's a very mature conversation for someone so early in their career, but now she's talking to someone six levels up, right? And having the courage to just come and say, Ritu, I just thought I'll come have coffee with you and just ask for what could I do differently? And she put herself out there and I said, you know, and usually what leaders do is like, yeah, that's great. It's great to meet you. And, know, you know, nothing will come out of it. Right. But you're just going and put, and she put herself out there and I had, was talking to her. talked to her for 15 minutes or 20 minutes. A few months later, I thought I was looking for someone to demo something on stage. It was technical thing, but I needed someone who was sharp and

Rahul Abhyankar [33:11]

?

Ritu Bhargava [33:31]

Someone who could own the stage in a way that was, you know, topic relevant. And I thought of her. And I said, would you like to do this? And she like, I love presenting.

Rahul Abhyankar [33:38]

Beautiful.

Ritu Bhargava [33:43]

What I learned from her is keep putting yourself out there I call it kiss the frogs, kiss the frogs. Do it. Put yourself out there. What is the worst that can happen?

Rahul Abhyankar [33:56]

That's very, very interesting in terms of just putting yourself out there, not expecting that the answer to come right in that moment, but the answer could come later down the road by virtue of just you having put yourself out there. Yeah. Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [34:09]

Don't make it your day job. Like, you know, I also find a lot of people who just like networking, networking, networking, coffee, coffee, coffee. People know what you're doing. Your leaders are not stupid. But if you're genuinely out there to really learn and put yourself out there, they will also see it.

Rahul Abhyankar [34:16]

So on your LinkedIn profile you mentioned that you were a part of the USA Women's Cricket Team. And that could be an entire episode by itself. But I'm just, you as a fan and cricket nerd, I just am very curious to learn. Tell me about that.

Ritu Bhargava [34:46]

It's 2011 is a year for the books for me. And when I moved to the US, I had no friends. I came with two suitcases. I knew like maybe two people total. And I had nothing to do. I was miserable. I was actually crying for the first year because I came from India. I had a good life. I lived alone. had like all this help, good food. And I was like, okay, what do I do? And I found a hobby, cricket. So they were like, okay, we're going to go play at Stanford. Come join. I was like, great. I played cricket in India. Let's do it. And again, I'll just tie it to, me, one step after the next. I put myself out there and said, at the very least I'll meet more people. Right. And then I actually enjoyed playing the sport. So I immersed myself in it. So for the next two years, all I did was work, work out and sleep. That's all I did. Wake up in the morning, go for like, you know, work out, go to work. at 5 p.m., 5.30 p.m. Go to the car, change into cricket gear, go to Stanford, play till 9, 9.30, come home, work again, sleep, rinse, repeat.

Rahul Abhyankar [35:48]

? Hmm. Did you bat, bowl, keep wickets, do all-rounder?

Ritu Bhargava [36:04]

I batted and bowled. did an off-break and it depends on at the local level I opened. By the time I got to the US team, I think I was seven down or eight down. When we played for the World Cup qualifiers, this is when I made it to the US team. I sat most of the games out because I was not good enough. But I was still on the US team and I did get to play a few games. But more importantly, I got to train hard. I got to really experience what does it require you to be an international athlete? And this was not pro. This is amateur. At US no one really plays as much. But it exposed me to a very different, huh? yes. yes. The next level of cricketers in the US are mind blowing. So good. And I watch and you guys must have seen even the men's cricket.

Rahul Abhyankar [36:35]

It's changing now. It's changing now. It's changing now. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Ritu Bhargava [37:03]

But it's really, really competitive now. And I was 30 something at that time and you could still make it to the US team and now you could dream.

Rahul Abhyankar [37:11]

But you know, even then that you made it to the US team, that's just amazing.

Ritu Bhargava [37:17]

It's sports and work has a lot of things in common. And for me, it's the discipline You have to put in the work.

Rahul Abhyankar [37:28]

Last book that you read or a book that shifted your perspective about something?

Ritu Bhargava [37:34]

I actually try to read a lot. one is a growth mindset. Growth mindset. I really enjoyed the book about do you have a fixed mindset? I know it. This is how I know it. This is how I do it. And this is how I'll do it. Versus, hey, you know what? No, maybe not.

Rahul Abhyankar [37:41]

Growth mindset.

Ritu Bhargava [37:55]

Can I learn more? Can I do things differently? Can I absorb? And for me, I'm an artifact of hard work. I'm an artifact of perseverance and grit. And I learn from, and I take feedback and I learn from my mistakes and I get better every time. This interaction is making me better because I'm honing my craft of telling stories and having a conversation about 20 years of a career that half of the times you don't remember and connecting and Tell the audience that what you're doing now is not maybe what will define what you'll do in the future. And you all have a unique journey and your journey is your own journey and you know your struggles. No one gets to define them. And if I can do it, everyone can.

Rahul Abhyankar [38:31]

And keep putting yourself out there. Yeah, wonderful. Ritu, thank you so much. This was just such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show.

Ritu Bhargava [38:45]

You have to put yourself out there every time. Thank you for having me, Rahul.